what the culture was in the company i worked for, brown and williamson, it was do most anything to prevent the outside world from understandi what the truth was. and that was part of the culture. neil: but did others know that truth, jeff? you, obviously, were aware of% it, but did they know that things were being manipulated? the company was lying, misrepresenting itself and worse? >> oh, most certainly they knew it. and, i mean, it was controlled by lawyers. and the lawyers instructed the scientists how to write, they edited their papers, edited their conversations, their communications in meetings only to prevent anything from ever being discovered. and also at the same time ientists like myself were trained what to say outside the company versus what you could say inside the company. so there was a culture of keeping it inside a never letting the facts outside until it was reluctantly produced. neil: guys like you, jeff, in other words, when i see these kind of things pop up, the enron scandal ces to mind, sharon watkins said, well, there really weren't other whistleblowers.